SAINTS/PASS BALANCED PREDICAMENT

[Bahdbwoy]

Originally Posted by Mercenary1914

More Unique routes? Like what...nearly everything in tight can be pretty much created in SG Snugs...

what's more unique than delayed routes?

Can someone tell me the money play in SG tight...I must be missing something...

But what play is absolutely money ...Meaning there are three LEGIT option....

In other words what play in SG tight is better or on the same level as PA x Clown...I can run PA x Clown 3 to 4 different ways making it a completely different play every time....

The clown route is hard as heck to defend...the deep cross is murder against Man...and the delayed route can beat any coverage formation you use...

I just don't get the hypeness of SG tight...Please enlighten Me...

Irish..what are your thoughts?

most people know pa x clown and have ways to stop it.. there is a play in saints sb snugs that is way more deadly against man than pa x clown... as far as blue routes there are as many blue routes as you need in the sb snugs for the saints..

unique routes (in terms of the snugs/tight formations) are the hb wheel route/post in hb wheel, post/hb route in hb delay and the 2 outside wr routes on wr corner.. you can build many things using those routes as back bones..

ex - hb wheel with motion against cover 2

motion left slot to right, streak left outside wr, rb on curl, outside right wr fade, left slot drag

reads - rb curl, motioned post or the streak

left slot to right and smart route, right slot streak, outside right wr slant out

reads - left outside wr drag or right slot streak

motion rb left, outside left wr on in route, left slot on streak, outside right wr out route, right slot fade

reads - rb wheel after crossing los, outside wr in route or the streak

motion rb left and streak, outside right wr out route, right slot streak

reads - outside right drag, rb streak or left slot corner


of course there are several setups against cover 3, ect using the routes differently to get open or to open other routes

ex - motion left slot right, left outside wr slant out, right slot slant out, right outside wr streak, rb curl

reads - bout slant outs, post or curl


i'm sure your setups in sg snugs are great as well and may be able to replicate some of the same things but i like the saints book as a whole and like what i can do out of the tight formation

[Mercenary1914]

Originally Posted by Bahdbwoy

most people know pa x clown and have ways to stop it.. there is a play in saints sb snugs that is way more deadly against man than pa x clown... as far as blue routes there are as many blue routes as you need in the sb snugs for the saints..

unique routes (in terms of the snugs/tight formations) are the hb wheel route/post in hb wheel, post/hb route in hb delay and the 2 outside wr routes on wr corner.. you can build many things using those routes as back bones..

ex - hb wheel with motion against cover 2

motion left slot to right, streak left outside wr, rb on curl, outside right wr fade, left slot drag

reads - rb curl, motioned post or the streak

left slot to right and smart route, right slot streak, outside right wr slant out

reads - left outside wr drag or right slot streak

motion rb left, outside left wr on in route, left slot on streak, outside right wr out route, right slot fade

reads - rb wheel after crossing los, outside wr in route or the streak

motion rb left and streak, outside right wr out route, right slot streak

reads - outside right drag, rb streak or left slot corner


of course there are several setups against cover 3, ect using the routes differently to get open or to open other routes

ex - motion left slot right, left outside wr slant out, right slot slant out, right outside wr streak, rb curl

reads - bout slant outs, post or curl


i'm sure your setups in sg snugs are great as well and may be able to replicate some of the same things but i like the saints book as a whole and like what i can do out of the tight formation

Solid write up...Thanks man...

I noticed you comapared the PA x Clown play to other formation in the saints playbook...I get that..there other plays in the pass balance that I like better than the PA x clown....I guess from my stand point...The ability to stand in SG and beat every coverage you put out there seems to be legit with PA x Clown...as for saying that everyone knows about it...I get that...but it's damn near impossible to sopt the blue route with a 93 speed WR and the clown route with a 90 plus speed WR...You use the eagles with this play and its crazy how hard it is to contain...and the deep cross is just for kicks...

I like that wheel route btw in the saints...But it looks like you have to run different setups based off different coverages...Where is the PA x clown only needs one maybe two adjustments andd with those adjusments there is a route that beats all the coveages...except for perhaps a man/zone combo F@G d....and good rocket catchers can defeat that...OR...a scrambling QB that is 81 speed or more...will eat that up....

Once again...great write up....and I get the hype over gun tight...I still prefer snugs tight better...

[IRISHFBFAN1]

merc,

I dunno, I like both SNUGS and TIGHT. Thats tough. For me the important thing is that I have BENCH SWITCH and STICK. I can build an almost complete pass offense with those 2 plays with all of the hot routing smart routing and motion. Again, both books have that little extra, PB has PA CLOWN, and SAINTS has the HB WHEEL, both unique plays only found in one or the other. One thing that is very nice for sure is SB TIGHT SLOTS.
And to have a version of SNUGS or TIGHT in your playbook not to mention both of them and from GUN and UNDER is really special. I feel like I am having to chose my brother or my sister here lol. I love both books and the good thing is that I cannot go wrong whichever I choose. As far as I know, and I have asked through an e-mail, we can use or change books from week to week. I am not sure with this guy. I know its going to be straight gameplay I can promise you that. I am prepared to go with either book, I just like in my mind saying this is my book here we go.

I have noticed that the PB Book does have WR Screen out of SB Y Trips, a great screen from that set, and SAINTS book does not. Also, SAINTS book has probably one of the best EMPTY Sets in the game. I mean we could go on and on here. Both books are just flat out amazing. I really love the fact that in SB TIGHT FLEX from PB you have the ability to flip the off tackle play without moving anybody. But then again, I love PUMP and GO to call when I see man out of SB TIGHT SLOTS from the Saints book! lol, SEE, HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should just use a different book altogether! lol, that way I don't have to decide!

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..

[Mercenary1914]

Originally Posted by IRISHFBFAN1

merc,

I dunno, I like both SNUGS and TIGHT. Thats tough. For me the important thing is that I have BENCH SWITCH and STICK. I can build an almost complete pass offense with those 2 plays with all of the hot routing smart routing and motion. Again, both books have that little extra, PB has PA CLOWN, and SAINTS has the HB WHEEL, both unique plays only found in one or the other. One thing that is very nice for sure is SB TIGHT SLOTS.
And to have a version of SNUGS or TIGHT in your playbook not to mention both of them and from GUN and UNDER is really special. I feel like I am having to chose my brother or my sister here lol. I love both books and the good thing is that I cannot go wrong whichever I choose. As far as I know, and I have asked through an e-mail, we can use or change books from week to week. I am not sure with this guy. I know its going to be straight gameplay I can promise you that. I am prepared to go with either book, I just like in my mind saying this is my book here we go.

I have noticed that the PB Book does have WR Screen out of SB Y Trips, a great screen from that set, and SAINTS book does not. Also, SAINTS book has probably one of the best EMPTY Sets in the game. I mean we could go on and on here. Both books are just flat out amazing. I really love the fact that in SB TIGHT FLEX from PB you have the ability to flip the off tackle play without moving anybody. But then again, I love PUMP and GO to call when I see man out of SB TIGHT SLOTS from the Saints book! lol, SEE, HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should just use a different book altogether! lol, that way I don't have to decide!

If I couldn't use Goaline Off Tackle...I'd go with Saints...

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Originally Posted by Mercenary1914

If I couldn't use Goaline Off Tackle...I'd go with Saints...

merc,

I am leaning in that direction. CLOSE HB WHEEL out of SG 2RB
and the wheel route from under in SB TIGHT SLOTS is making my decision a little easier. I love the WR Screen from SB YTrips but I guess I can run it from the GUN. Timing on this play is more consistent from under because of the snap variations but thats ok, I am going to be able to roll with my CHARGERS so WR Screen is not going to be one of my special plays! I know you guys are going to laugh at me but I like "I TWINS" as much as Strong Close.
Now when running the Pass Balanced I only ran Off Tackle from SB Tight Flex because of the ability to flip the play. Now instead of seeing all of that off tackle defense that I would get when running strong close I had them worried about the opposite side. Another reason why I love Inside Zone from Twins. Oh well, I got some great info from you guys as always, and this has been a pretty good thread in which I hope all the lurkers were able to pick up some ideas for themselves.

Lets keep this baby going and call it the official SAINTS/PASS BALANCED and for all the TEXANS Users out there SITE!

I will feel you guys in some more on other updstes as far as the rules are concerned.

Mercenary1914, btw great stuff on what you said about the wheel routes from sb snugs!

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..

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Last edited by IRISHFBFAN1; 03-09-2010 at 09:32 PM.

[turkturkbaby]

Originally Posted by Mercenary1914

More Unique routes? Like what...nearly everything in tight can be pretty much created in SG Snugs...

Can someone tell me the money play in SG tight...I must be missing something...

Saints HB Delay
1.HB or (A)WR beats man and cover 3
2.(B)WR beats cover 2 (can't hot this route)
3.Easy left to right read
4. If you hit HB the (LB)WR sets a block on the DB 90%
5. If they manually follow HB (X)WR comes out the right side wide open.
---------------------------------------------------------
Can motion the HB and get a Trips tight empty backfield.
or
Can put the HB on an out slant (motion him then snap before he moves)

Bench switch is also effective

[JL]

Pa X Clown>>>

I hate wheel routes in this game...they only work against fag D really....Idk, I just like quick hitting plays.

I just roll with Denvers PB. Its basically NE with a very good off tackle.

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Originally Posted by JL.

Pa X Clown>>>

I hate wheel routes in this game...they only work against fag D really....Idk, I just like quick hitting plays.

I just roll with Denvers PB. Its basically NE with a very good off tackle.

JL,

Wheel routes are excellent in the game but you have to run them in specific spots on the field against specific defenses.
Hash, and into the boundry vs Zone You User or be in purple.And if you are in Purple that means the underneath route will be open. VS man it can still be good, depends on the speed of the receiver or rb.

3 of the top wheel routes in the game that I run are, and their are others but,

PA WR IN, SB Y TRIPS, SG Y TRIPS, SG TREY/OPEN
CLOSE HB WHEEL, SG 2RB SPLIT OFFSET
HB WHEEL, SB SNUGS

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..

[deloz]

Irish can't you use both? Do they force you to only use one PB?

Man of the People

Originally Posted by xTMGx KCs FINEST

HONESTLY IF IT WASN'T FOR MADDEN AND THE RAIDERS BEING SUCH A GLITCHY TEAM NO ONE WOULD KNOW WHO THE HELL NNAMDI ASOMUGHA EVEN IS REAL TALK..

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Originally Posted by deloz

Irish can't you use both? Do they force you to only use one PB?

yea, just found out, I can use both! whew! losing it there for a minute lol!

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..

[zerowley]

I like Snugs Flip over Tight because of the better running game, but I like the ability to use motion snaps out of Tight. My favorite Tight play from the Saints book is HB Wheel.

Streak the right slot, put the far right WR on a slant to the right, smart route the left slot, and motion the far right WR to the left and snap as he takes his first step.

The HB Wheel route is an easy throw once you mess with it a little bit. Against man you can throw it right as the back comes to the line of scrimmage. Just bullet it to the right and for some reason the back will go out wide and leave his man behind. The motioned slant will kill man bump and you have the drag, streak, and the smart routed corner (on the left) as safety valves. The corner on the left is great against man without bump.

Against zone the HB wheel route is a good quick pass if they don't cover the flats, but if they do he will usually find a seam when he cuts up field. If not you have the streak, flat, corner combination on the right side of the field. The drag and the smart routed corner on the left (throw a bullet to the left as he is 3-4 yards from the sidelines and rocket catch it) are great safety valves.

This play, Stick, HB Draw, and Bench Switch are ridiculously hard to stop.

[Mercenary1914]

Originally Posted by zerowley

I like Snugs Flip over Tight because of the better running game, but I like the ability to use motion snaps out of Tight. My favorite Tight play from the Saints book is HB Wheel.

Streak the right slot, put the far right WR on a slant to the right, smart route the left slot, and motion the far right WR to the left and snap as he takes his first step.

The HB Wheel route is an easy throw once you mess with it a little bit. Against man you can throw it right as the back comes to the line of scrimmage. Just bullet it to the right and for some reason the back will go out wide and leave his man behind. The motioned slant will kill man bump and you have the drag, streak, and the smart routed corner (on the left) as safety valves. The corner on the left is great against man without bump.

Against zone the HB wheel route is a good quick pass if they don't cover the flats, but if they do he will usually find a seam when he cuts up field. If not you have the streak, flat, corner combination on the right side of the field. The drag and the smart routed corner on the left (throw a bullet to the left as he is 3-4 yards from the sidelines and rocket catch it) are great safety valves.

This play, Stick, HB Draw, and Bench Switch are ridiculously hard to stop.

yeah man..I forgot to mention I prefer the running game in snugs over tight as well....

BTW ...nice write up...

[deloz]

HB counters in Gun Tight destroy fag D.

Man of the People

Originally Posted by xTMGx KCs FINEST

HONESTLY IF IT WASN'T FOR MADDEN AND THE RAIDERS BEING SUCH A GLITCHY TEAM NO ONE WOULD KNOW WHO THE HELL NNAMDI ASOMUGHA EVEN IS REAL TALK..

[rokket]

Originally Posted by Mercenary1914

More Unique routes? Like what...nearly everything in tight can be pretty much created in SG Snugs...

what's more unique than delayed routes?

Can someone tell me the money play in SG tight...I must be missing something...

But what play is absolutely money ...Meaning there are three LEGIT option....

In other words what play in SG tight is better or on the same level as PA x Clown...I can run PA x Clown 3 to 4 different ways making it a completely different play every time....

The clown route is hard as heck to defend...the deep cross is murder against Man...and the delayed route can beat any coverage formation you use...

I just don't get the hypeness of SG tight...Please enlighten Me...

Irish..what are your thoughts?

i agree with u mercenary...some guy told me a week ago in another thread LOL'd etc that SG snugs flip is not the best of the tight formations...i still disagree...the clown, bench swap motioning short field slot wr to an out slant, or the other PAs with the delays motioning the rb with out slant is so freaking hard to stop, especially when u start throwin in the sweep.

i just do not know how u can top that with the sg tight formation....convince me

[Mercenary1914]

Originally Posted by rokket

i agree with u mercenary...some guy told me a week ago in another thread LOL'd etc that SG snugs flip is not the best of the tight formations...i still disagree...the clown, bench swap motioning short field slot wr to an out slant, or the other PAs with the delays motioning the rb with out slant is so freaking hard to stop, especially when u start throwin in the sweep.

i just do not know how u can top that with the sg tight formation....convince me

Trust me rokket...no one will convince me that SG tight is better than snugs...I don't care how cool that wheel route is...IT's just the wheel route....

PA x Clown covers more than just one route...every route in that play has specific thing it can beat coverage wise....

AND deloz...any run can pretty much destroy F@G defense with the right slide protections and positioning...

SG Snugs runs owns SG tights runs...

and Deloz remember when you were talking about using the 5 WR setup as a wildcat...I never wanted to say anything..because I was trying to keep this hush hush....

but dare anyone here to run the wild cat with SG Snugs PA x Clown...You will thank me...


Just slant your two slot WRs, and send RB on a streak...if you user a QB 81 speed or more...you will get 10 to 15 yards easy...if your oponnet begins to pinch and trys to stuff middle...you fake the run and pull back...The delay will be WIDE OPEN!

[obinkc]

These are the reasons I'd choose Pass balanced-

From Gun Snugs Flip you can audible out to spread and doubles with the TE in the proper place.

The run/PA/passing game from SB Tight Flex is much better than tight slots for me.

SB Flex HB Slash (Inside Zone), SB Spread Flex Inside Zone, of course the off tackle from Tight Flex, I Pro Inside Zone, added to the other off tackles gives me a great running game to compliment my passes out of those formations.

I could stay in 3WR 1RB 1TE all game with the formations like SB Flex, Tight Flex, Split Cowboy., etc.

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Last edited by obinkc; 03-11-2010 at 07:57 PM.

[aspengc8]

I think both PB & NO books are solid. HOU book is also very similar, with a lot of strong SB runs, good I form/strong mix, and good shotty. Just lacks screens, but has good basic passing like stick, levels, PA X clown & bench concepts.

Irish, any thoughts on HOU book? Some really good plays out of singleback twin WR that has RB auto-motion as well as HB blunt dive that gets insane combo blocking on the left side of line. It has good outside runs & PA's to complement also.

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Originally Posted by aspengc8

I think both PB & NO books are solid. HOU book is also very similar, with a lot of strong SB runs, good I form/strong mix, and good shotty. Just lacks screens, but has good basic passing like stick, levels, PA X clown & bench concepts.

Irish, any thoughts on HOU book? Some really good plays out of singleback twin WR that has RB auto-motion as well as HB blunt dive that gets insane combo blocking on the left side of line. It has good outside runs & PA's to complement also.

asp, you are correct houston book is very good. I don't remember the reason I am not running it other than the wr screen thing, but hell PB has the one I love and the one you see the most or at least what I have seen and thats out of sb y trips, killer screen! good book though, something was missing just can't remember what it was lol1

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..

[Mercenary1914]

After taking some pointers from this thread, and my other thread in regards to the off tackle...I have decided "in Smokey's voice from Friday" (Never, ever, ever, ever leave Pass Balance)....Yesterday I played a franchise game against last year's superbowl champ....I used only single back Flex, Single back Tight, I Tight PR, SG Doubles, SG Dual Shotty.....I used goaline off tackle 3 times...and only inside the 5 yard line....andI use strong close twice...for the dive play.....I have completely improved my running game without the off tackle as a threat. I was amazed at how the I Tight PR worked with subbing the wing TE as a Tackle and motioning him.

AND like obinkc said...that Inside Zone run "slash" out of single back flex is murder.

IRISH check your PM's.

[IRISHFBFAN1]

Originally Posted by Mercenary1914

After taking some pointers from this thread, and my other thread in regards to the off tackle...I have decided "in Smokey's voice from Friday" (Never, ever, ever, ever leave Pass Balance)....Yesterday I played a franchise game against last year's superbowl champ....I used only single back Flex, Single back Tight, I Tight PR, SG Doubles, SG Dual Shotty.....I used goaline off tackle 3 times...and only inside the 5 yard line....andI use strong close twice...for the dive play.....I have completely improved my running game without the off tackle as a threat. I was amazed at how the I Tight PR worked with subbing the wing TE as a Tackle and motioning him.

AND like obinkc said...that Inside Zone run "slash" out of single back flex is murder.

IRISH check your PM's.

Merc,

I agree 100%! I hardly ever run strong close and let me tell you why. I love the formation, love it, BUT...the lackof plays back to the opposite side will kill you against very good players. They know how to stop off tackle, I know how to stop of tackle, and the toss play which is also a great play as well is not the answer. A counter play back to the opposite is needed and its not there. I do not run goaline unless I am inside the 10 yd line anyway which is one of the rules in our franchise. But if I played you or anybody else, the only time you would see goaline is at the goaline or if I am inside my own 10 yd line or less. When I run the Pass Balanced Book I will run SB TIGHT FLEX, all day long. But the other runs like INSIDE Zone out of Pro I are just as good. The advantage over running these formations over strong close is the fact you have the ability to flip runs without moving anybody. Much tougher to defend IMO. So, I run off tackle basically from SB TIGHT FLEX only. I am in a tough spot with the SAINTS book because if I want to run Off Tackle I have to run it from strong close, don't like this, but I am working on some things that will keep the defense from honing in on off tackle. I use Pro Twins more than strong close. Cannot beat INSIDE ZONE, STRETCH, TOSS, and and all the PA's that go with this formation.

I have decided to use both. I will change when I feel it is necssary. That way I get the best of both worlds. I would trade EMPTY Y SAINTS and even GUN TIGHT for SB TIGHT FLEX! I would probably run SB TIGHT FLEX, SB TIGHT SLOTS and SG 2RB from the SAINTS book all game long!

Strong Close again is an awesome formation! But it does me no good against the type of players I play against. SB TIGHT FLEX however is very difficult to defend. I often, depending on my opponent open the game with PA WAGGLE, one hell of a PA Pass.

She would much rather be UNDERCENTER!

A LIBERAL SIM PLAYER!

You want to stretch them EAST and WEST, and then punish them NORTH and SOUTH when they expand. When they start bringing people back in the box to stop the run, we go back to the air attacking the voided areas of those defenders trying to stop the run..